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Lease of Dot Tel Subdomain, possible or not? If I understand correctly from Acceptable Use Policy, unlike .COM and other TLDs, the .TEL domain cannot be used for subdomain lease not even any commercially used as service for third parties. But AUP says, that "Extended Names" is defined in section 4.2, while in section 4.2 it only mentions "sub-delegations or additional labels ("extended name"). What is "extended name" in the real life? It says in Acceptable Use Policy: Code:
[size] So, does that mean I cannot sell subdomain content and give the subdomain only to one company, like I can freely can do with .COM or .NET? Louis[/size] |
Isn't it up to the 'management' role only is respect to adding content? In other words Company Z 'pays for' the sub domain but you put the information. The prohibition is in allowing direct access to your .tel for adding the content. |
With regards to 3rd party use of subdomains I believe this is covered in our FAQ section (http://telnic.org/faq.html), under "Using .tel": "Can I run a commercial directory under a .tel domain? Yes. You are allowed to run a commercial directory-style service under your .tel domain under the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP); the restrictions are that you are not allowed to sub-delegate the management of that contact information to a third party." Additionally, Henri Asseily (our CTO/CSO) clarified the situation further here: http://rikkles.blogspot.com/2009/02/...-it-means.html Building on this further, there are many in the community and on this forum who can provide details regarding the ability to provide delegation tools but not direct sub-delegation, allowing the customer to update their details directly through a different control panel, thus effectively enabling the .tel owner to retain complete control and ownership of the domain whilst others populate contact information. Howard |
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You are helpful. But AUP does not clearly define what is "extended name". Further, AUP shall not need additional clarifications. AUP begins with "Definitions". When I look for definition of Extended Name it says that definition is: "is defined in Section 4.2. When I read Section 4.2 there it says: Sub-delegations. Domain Names may not have sub-delegations or additional labels (an "Extended Name") that would be in violation of and/or contrary to Section 4.1(b), except that Extended Names are permitted on the following conditions: When I refer to Section 4.1(b), that one refers to the obligations of Registrar, not the domain name holder. See begin of Section 4.1. But Section 4.2 clearly says: Sub-delegations. Domain Names may not have sub-delegations or additional labels (an "Extended Name") that would be in violation of and/or contrary to Section 4.1(b), except that Extended Names are permitted on the following conditions: (a) the registration and/or use made of such Extended Name is in accordance with the provisions in these Policies; and (b) the registration and/or use of the Extended Name is free of charge to and is only for the use of subsidiaries, business units or employees of the company or members of the association that is the Domain Name Holder, and is not offered as a service to third parties, or, where the Domain Name Holder is a natural person, the Extended Name is only for the personal use of the Domain Name Holder or the family of the Domain Name Holder, is not offered as a service to third parties, and no fee or other compensation is charged in connection with such sub-delegation. NOW AS A MATTER OF FACT: [/size]
[size] Right now, you have AUP on your side, and you can at any time forbid the domain use, and even TAKE IT AWAY if you want so, because AUP says one thing, you declare in the FAQ other thing, and in the end, you have taken away rights of domain name holders which with other TLDs would never be possible. Do right thing. Employ editor and lawyer who will make AUP be CERTAIN to all.[/size] |
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I agree with JLouisBiz, there is no clarity being presented here... so does this mean that services like tellipse.com are completely illegal?[/size] |
We would not be promoting solutions such as Tellipse, which enable different ways of populating .tel domain, if they were against our AUP. The AUP is designed to cover many instances of .tel usage and has been constructed with great care. The guidance we have provided in terms of explanation has not changed since the day .tel launched and is offered by way of clarifying the interpretation of the AUP when it comes to commercial usage. You can see this answer as a constant throughout the history of this and other forums. |
Sure, constant in regards to relation to those services. But you should not ignore my points above, that is your AUP. You can handle your business in different manner, but you can come up at any time with new idea or change, as long as AUP is the referenced document. AUP is similar to some law. You can break the law many times and get tolerated or even the police officer can tell you that something is legal, but in the law it can be illegal and one day you as citizen you might get a surprise. NOW AS A MATTER OF FACT: * Dot Tel Domains CANNOT be leased in accordance with that AUP, because you cannot lease something for money which you can give only for free (see AUP). * Please either remove FAQ which says that commercial directory can be run, or modify that AUP that it clearly says that commercial directory can be run. Right now it is clear. And regarding FAQ, it is under your website Terms & Conditions. Let me mention part of it: While Telnic endeavours that the information on the site is correct, Telnic does not warrant the accuracy and completeness of the material on this Site. Telnic may make changes to the material on this Site at any time without notice. The material on this Site may be out of date and Telnic makes no commitment to update such material. Further, Telnic reserves the right to update or remove material at any time. That is why I say and repeat again, it would be better to have AUP which is clear and AUP which is not under your website Terms & Conditions, like FAQ, but I hope so, supervised by third parties. I can track what is written in the AUP, but I am not sure if I can track or say that your FAQ is legally binding. * Define what is "Extended Name" exactly, as it is nowhere defined. See AUP. * AUP says only subsidiaries, business units or employees of the company or members of the association can use the "Extended Name", so MODIFY AUP, that it clearly says that commercial directory can be run or deny it can be run. You should not have a FAQ opposing AUP. I understand that you endorse and tolerate such services, but if people cannot see that AUP is clear, it will remain unclear. Louis |
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YES, I agree with what JLouisBiz says. The AUP should be modified to make the policies clear to everybody and should not leave any ambiguity. Telnic should avoid speaking through forums, blogs, FAQ's, messaging systems (similar to twitter) or through private interviews to third parties when explaining thier policy. Right now the .TEL has become very uncertain as we do not know what would TELNIC do next. New restrictions, such as "Optimizing execution time", are being imposed to control user access to the domain. Building directories is out of question with this type of restrictions. More and more similar restrictions may be imposed whenever TELNIC sees what's best for them. Unable to plan any development projects as TELNIC changes policies from time to time. Discouraging the independent developer as TELNIC management leaks out future plans to selected third parties of their choice. So the TELNIC follows a policy that they can change from time to time as they (managent) wish. So, please "TEL US" your policy in black and white by changing the AUP accordingly. (Please don't make announcement or reply to this through reporters, third party forums, blogs, messaging systems, interviews in foreign languages etc. Just change the AUP and let everybody sees it before the renewals of the .TEL). Then we can decide whether to continue with the .TEL or not. Thank you.[/size] |
Thanks to all here for highlighting the issues. I think Telnic should make clear policy on the usage. I look forward to hear from Telnic Thanks |
. Thanks, for all the detailed. thorough and informative posts, that have a lot of valid statements and facts. Great posts, indeed, from users, fighting to be able act and set up their directories in compliance with Telnic. It is clear, that we don't want to set up directories, and rent/lease the subdomains, and then later finding us getting some sort of trouble with Telnic, because not beeing in compliance with AUP. As we then would possibly be loosing clients and money. I get the impression, that the regulation is confusing, and that Telnic has a problem in taking a clear stand, as it maybe might not know, how to continue to proceed, and not knowing how it wants the global .tel directory to develope. Nor can it maybe admit, that it has no clear stand, yet. Nevertheless, I don't see the dot tel domain "becomming very uncertain". The confusion that we have there: I am sure we can soon sort it out, and make things clearer and better understadable. And I am sure, that Telnic can see, that there is a problem there. Lets work together, and find a good solution for both parties: The users, as well as Telnic. Love, peace and satisfacton. . . |
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Howard, your site has been inaccessible ever since I found out about it... I dont see any plans on your roadmap which mention tellipse either... And can you take JLouis's suggestion and alter your AUP please? That is the only document that businesses can rely on.[/size] |
makemoneydave, which site are you referring to that is inaccessible? Please note that Tellipse is a 3rd party tool, and not linked to Telnic. This was just an example of a 3rd party tool, such as the many others at http://telnic.org/tools-other.html which allow different ways of pp[ulating .tel domains that we are happy to promote. |
Interesting discussion... long overdue perhaps. I had similar observations about the aup and its "inconsistencies". Can we get these resolved now please? Howard - I think Dave got confused when you said "We would not be promoting solutions such as Tellipse, which enable different ways of populating .tel domain, if they were against our AUP." - that did seem to imply a link between Telnic and Telipse... |
Dear all, The main question in this thread is "Can I run a commercial directory under .tel with the current AUP?" And the answer is, Yes, you can. We have provided some examples of successful directories in our November Newsletter . To re-iterate, you can:
[size] All these examples receive payments from advertisers, and are in compliance with the AUP. We wish them and other directory owners a lot of success this year! Remember: at all times, the .tel owner is responsible for the published information, which means legal liability in case of any dispute. As long as you understand it, and can control (choose and manage) information in your .tel domain, you can run a directory. As stated in the AUP, sub-delegation and transfer of control over parts of your domain are not allowed. I hope this information is helpful. If you have further questions about the AUP, you are welcome to contact us directly atcommunity@telnic.org.[/size] |
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Telnic, thank you for the information. I have a question - is a .tel owner is responsible for the links which he publishes at his .tel? Are they (links) the "published information"?[/size] |
@telnic -- sorry, but who are you? I am at least enough transparent that I occasionally sign with my last name Louis, and I have some links. Further, it is clear who is Nadya and who is Howard Jones. I don't know who are you but "telnic - junior member". Don't be offended by my question, but where is the corporate responsibility? You wanna defend Telnic's AUP, OK. But by stating something in anonymous manner is far away from correct company's communication, as that is your forum, not mine. AUP did not change and definition of extended name is missing and there is still same issue with the AUP like above written. What you imply is that users having commercial directory are OK and alright with TELNIC and AUP, but when it comes to the court case, your AUP would be on your side, and not on user side, further, your statements on forum would be void, as that is not AUP and you are just "telnic - junior member" and nobody would have an evidence. Your website Terms and Conditions says you are free to change the content of this website as you like. I understand that TELNIC would give permission to commercial directory, but AUP is unclear and contrary to your unofficial statements. Why is it too much to define what is missing in AUP "Extended name" and why is it hard to simply say in amended AUP that commercial directory can be run under those and those conditions, to bring more security to entrepreneurs with serious intentions for commercial directory. I am one of them and I have 100+ Dot Tel domains, and I would like to see that more certainty comes from official side, like AUP or official signed statement, and not just junior telnic posting statement. |
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In regards to Telnic, they are just a company which will never take responsibility for your content. That is quite common with many such publishing companies, especially domain registrars or sponsoring organizations. But in regards to the laws of your jurisdiction, you might be responsible for links you publish on your websites. For example, in Germany, if you intentionally place links on your website in order to damage personal rights of other individual or person, you are responsible, even with the disclaimer. Disclaimer is sometimes worth something, but when it comes to harm of others, I say you are responsible. Further, beside the law, you are ethically responsible for your website. Ask yourself: is it yours? If it is yours, you are responsible. You would see that people DO think that you are responsible if you would attempt to place links to harmful, damaging, sick websites with instructions to do sick, harmful and illegal things.[/size] |
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FYI, the Telnic account is used by Telnic's management to post official replies, as well as automated updates to announcements and other generic actions.[/size] |
Sorry, Nadya, but that is not serious. I hope I have the right to say my opinion on this forum. Your policies in regards to Dot Tel domains are here: http://telnic.org/aboutus.html And those policies are valid for Dot Tel domains. And if you look into Terms and Conditions for the website http://telnic.org/legal.html then you don't have any liability nor you give warranties and you can change content at any time. But you cannot change AUP which is document also clearly known to third parties. Your AUP is not clear. Your communication by user "telnic", by my opinion, is not a proper remedy to uncertainty written in the AUP. I understand your position, but I wish to get certainty. And certainty must be clear in AUP or other official policies, signed by TELNIC. Forum postings are for me not official. Messages can be altered at any time and by your legal terms you don't have any liabilities nor warranties. I have no official document where it gives me certainty that you or "telnic" are authorized by TELNIC to give official statements. I know it sounds complicated for you, but when I start making commercial directory, according to your AUP you can at all times charge me, and I have no defense, but to try to prove your statements with "forum messages". Do you see how silly it would sound to the judge? |
Hi dutch - yes, this is a legal problem that needs to be sorted out before 3rd party applications can take off. And yes, you can't sublease your domain (just read the above). |
