ICANN complaint against Telnames

by maxi 2012-12-19, 6:08 am

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Post n°76

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by maxi 2012-12-19, 6:08 am

Expert wrote:No answer to this question:
http://www.teltalk.org/t642-is-telnames-allowed-to-sell-domains

The absence of their answer means "Yes, it is a break of ICANN rules". But obviously they do not want to investigate deeper.

By the way, this case could be understood as lack of will of ICANN to complete its duties, and so it could be a very good argument in favor of the opinion of countries who want to put ICANN under UNO control: http://www.torrented.com/article/3/Russia%20wants%20UNO%20to%20control%20ICANN. Only a volunteer wanted who will write them about that. Seriously, if they (these countries) would just know about it then they will caught this case with both their hands.

Freedom for .tel, it is no so bad: due to that complaint we now got big pictures to all Telnic's templates. Without that complaint may be we would wait for them for the next two-three years. Also, as I understood, Telnic made us a hint (though not said it loudly) that Telnic will not quit now TELs with subdomains.

by mikeseaton 2012-12-19, 10:14 am

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Post n°77

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by mikeseaton 2012-12-19, 10:14 am

Freedom for .tel wrote:I just lost my last hope:

Thank you for submitting your complaint regarding Telnic Limited.

ICANN’s authority is contractual and does not extend beyond the provisions of the .TEL Agreement (at http://www.icann.org/en/about/agreements/registries/tel/tel-agreement-07apr06-en.htm). Your customer service related claims (e.g. marketing decisions, software development plans, specific rules for participating in the Telnic Forum and enhancements to .TEL names) regarding Telnic Limited are outside of ICANN’s contract authority. However, you can contact Telnic Limited directly to inquire about your customer service concerns.

Based on your complaint, ICANN inquired about Telnic Limited’s compliance with the following .TEL Agreement provisions:

1. Article III 1.(g) - General Obligations of Registry Operator to Sponsored Community.
2. Article VII 1.(a) - Access to Registry Services
3. Part 1, 3(e) and (f) of the .TEL Charter – Management of the sTLD

Telnic Limited demonstrated compliance with the above provisions and therefore ICANN considers this matter closed.

Sincerely,

ICANN Contractual Compliance

What else can we do
to make Telnic bringing
attention to its customers?

@FreedomForTel

I can see that ICANN might feel they can reject what they have said above is a "customer service related claims" complaint.

What appears to have happened with your complaint is that ICANN have NOT viewed your complaint as referring to the following part of the http://www.icann.org/en/about/agreements/registries/tel/tel-agreement-07apr06-en.htm agreement:

ARTICLE VII Special Provisions

Section VII.1Registry Operator-Registrar Agreement

(b) Registry Operator Shall Not Act as Own Registrar. Registry Operator shall not act as a registrar with respect to the TLD. This shall not preclude Registry Operator from registering names within the TLD to itself through a request made to an ICANN-accredited registrar.

(c)Restrictions on Acquisition of Ownership or Controlling Interest in Registrar. Registry Operator shall not acquire, directly or indirectly, control of, or a greater than fifteen percent ownership interest in, any ICANN-accredited registrar without ICANN's prior written approval, which approval shall not be unreasonably withheld.

So as they clearly didn't view your complaint as a reference to the above clauses, then they didn't actually consider the issue of Telnic Ltd. forming a wholly-owned subsidiary Telnames Ltd. to offer registrar-type services.

So it really does look like ICANN has NOT said it's OK for the Registry Telnic Ltd. to also act as a de facto Registrar, but has taken your complaint as referring to what they consider as "customer service" issues.

However, if Telnic Ltd. finally do the decent thing and offer it's Telnames template to all .tel registrants, as they should have done right at the start, then I would see no need for anyone to file a new complaint under the applicable Section VII.1 (b) and (c) clauses.

http://MikeSeaton.tel

Last edited by mikeseaton on 2012-12-19, 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total

by kprobe 2012-12-19, 10:29 am

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Post n°78

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by kprobe 2012-12-19, 10:29 am

For the sake of the sane .TEL community of developers, please give it a rest!

by mikeseaton 2012-12-19, 10:45 am

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Post n°79

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by mikeseaton 2012-12-19, 10:45 am

kprobe wrote:For the sake of the sane .TEL community of developers, please give it a rest!

@Mark

A lot of the "sane .TEL community" are extremely annoyed that the Roadmap was cancelled, development of Telnic .tels more or less halted, communication from Telnic stopped, the .Telegraph newsletter cancelled, the marketing of Telnic .tels (such as it was) ceased, whilst Telnic went off and developed the Telnames template and web site.

Having had to put up with being let down like this, the "sane .TEL community" thought they would at least see the benefit of this cessation of Telnic .tel activity with the option of a further template style in http://YourBusiness.tel

Then the "sane .TEL community" found out they couldn't have this - unless they paid well over twice as much and were prepared to switch registrars.

On top of that, the "sane .TEL community" discovered Telnic L:td had formed a wholly-owned subsidiary Telnames Ltd. to act as a de facto Registrar, bypassing the Telnic registrars (an unwise business move for the long term) so they could get the whole domain price going to themselves.

So the "sane .TEL community" said Enough Is Enough - you can't treat customers who have kept .tel afloat for 3.5 years like that - and quite rightly made a complaint to ICANN.

Unfortunately this complaint has been considered under the wrong ICANN clause, hence my post.

I believe in business companies should stick to agreements and treat customers fairly - don't you ?

http://MikeSeaton.tel

Last edited by mikeseaton on 2012-12-19, 11:02 am; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)

by Freedom for .tel 2012-12-19, 10:48 am

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Post n°80

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Freedom for .tel 2012-12-19, 10:48 am

kprobe wrote:For the sake of the sane .TEL community of developers, please give it a rest!

What's your suggestion
to make Telnic working
on .tel development?

I don't like this topic
either, but should I
only watch how Telnic
destroys itself and the
whole idea behind .tel?

I really hope Telnic
would give us a sign
for improvement!

But how you can make
the people at Telnic talk?
They even don't response!

If an exchange of information
between Telnic and the
community would be possible,
I would be very happy to
support productive activities!

Please advise!

by kprobe 2012-12-19, 11:22 am

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Post n°81

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by kprobe 2012-12-19, 11:22 am

The ICANN issue is dead. Think about it, all the new TLD's coming out, so many will be registries operating as registrars and vice versa soon. Dot Jobs already has already been doing this for years and an ICANN complaint against them was dropped this week after a couple of years. Telnic and Telnames operate separately now, Telnames is a reseller it seems. Don't see an issue.

As far as roadmap and development slowing sure that hurt, but that was done so that Telnames can come out. Telnames is more or less what the original pro .tel was supposed to be. Nobody including registrars was pushing .tel, and with domainers holding on to .tel and not providing awareness, Telnic had to do something. Maybe Telnic went "dark" for a reason. Most development went to Telnames but we still got some requested changes and there are some more to come soon. There are many people developing their tels, but many of you in this forum just sit on them and wait for their prices to rise. Won't happen until there is development and awareness. Many of us are struggling to provide both and have positives dialogs for new features like as in the Telnic forum. I don't have issues with customer service. I, like others have changed the methods for using .tel and Pro .Tel continues, maybe slowly, but coexists nicely with Telnames. Think out of the box. Different strokes for different folks.

by Boracay 2012-12-19, 1:44 pm

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Post n°82

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Boracay 2012-12-19, 1:44 pm

kprobe wrote:Pro .Tel continues, maybe slowly, but coexists nicely with Telnames..

Lets move on.
If you need a telnames then transfer with a promo code.
Pro.tel is not dead and tweaks and revisions are being made.
Merry Christmas

by fustachio.tel 2012-12-19, 2:27 pm

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Post n°83

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by fustachio.tel 2012-12-19, 2:27 pm

Inter-tel goods and services marketplace, just saying.

by Peter Horn 2012-12-19, 5:32 pm

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Post n°84

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Peter Horn 2012-12-19, 5:32 pm

Even if I think life is to short to spend any time on a sneaky hoax like this:
I'm human and therefore a bit angry – and I'm thinking about, IF THIS ISSUE IS REALLY DEAD.

Hope this message arrives and got understood at the right place ...

Peter Horn
(By the way, a real Peter Horn, not a sneaky peterhorn@live.de)

by Expert 2012-12-19, 5:37 pm

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Post n°85

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Expert 2012-12-19, 5:37 pm

@kprobe, boracay

You're comments make me think:
We fought our fight together with Telnic.
Then we fought against Telnic, because Telnic left us in the lurch.
So far all the fighting didn't change anything and probably won't change anything in future either.
We have only two options: leaving .tel or accepting Telnic's strategy.

@fustachio

You're last comment I don't understand.

by maxi 2012-12-19, 6:10 pm

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Post n°86

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by maxi 2012-12-19, 6:10 pm

Expert wrote:We have only two options: leaving .tel or accepting Telnic's strategy.

I think there is also the third option, which is situated between the first two: the minimizing of our involvment in TEL-game.

by Boracay 2012-12-20, 1:20 am

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Post n°87

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Boracay 2012-12-20, 1:20 am

fustachio.tel wrote:Inter-tel goods and services marketplace, just saying.

Directories owners firstly up selling a free listing to a paid alternative telnames listing. The commissions are very very attractive just released by CJ.com and telnames.com.
And on top of that, upgrading the mobile telnames template with a further link to mobile services offered by go.mobi (such as forms submission, additional photo and video galleries, PayPal and bookings reservations etc etc)

by ricardovazmonteiro 2013-07-16, 12:39 pm

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Post n°88

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by ricardovazmonteiro 2013-07-16, 12:39 pm

Its funny ! Telnames use .com domain name !

by Toptel 2013-07-17, 1:10 am

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Post n°89

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Toptel 2013-07-17, 1:10 am

ricardovazmonteiro wrote:Its funny ! Telnames use .com domain name !

They have to, because owning a .tel is not enough to sell a product.

by 3dsavvy 2013-10-08, 8:11 am

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Post n°90

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by 3dsavvy 2013-10-08, 8:11 am

silly people

The .tel registry along with all other domain registrars, every one, are concerned with
making money from registrants, case closed. Customer service and product value-added
consideration, misnomers.

.tel is what it is and cannot and will not be improved upon to approach anything close to
.com or .net.

.tel is a play thing for whomever runs it. There is not serious impetus for improvement.

What are you people on?

by Tim Spears 2013-10-08, 11:45 am

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Post n°91

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Tim Spears 2013-10-08, 11:45 am

3dsavvy wrote:.tel is a play thing for whomever runs it. There is not serious impetus for improvement.

That's the unadulterated truth - hard to learn for some. Tel could have the power for an easy and simple website configuration, but within the last years we got the proof that nobody is interested in developing it.

by mikeseaton 2013-10-08, 5:09 pm

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Post n°92

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by mikeseaton 2013-10-08, 5:09 pm

Tim Spears wrote:

3dsavvy wrote:.tel is a play thing for whomever runs it. There is not serious impetus for improvement.

That's the unadulterated truth - hard to learn for some. Tel could have the power for an easy and simple website configuration, but within the last years we got the proof that nobody is interested in developing it.

Why would they be ?

Telnic have done everything within their power to drive domain investors away (who BTW are often extensive software developers like myself).

I have been banned from Telnic's own forum (as have many who have dared to speak the truth) and also blocked from following Telnames on Twitter.

I laid the software foundation for a Tel Global Directory through the development of TelReader (which writes to a database which can then be queried), but have since abandoned these plans due to a combination of Telnic's attitude towards domain investors / software developers and also rapidly falling total .tel registration numbers.

So many other domain investors / software developers have also given up with .tel - I predict no change in this whilst the current setup continues !

Just .telling it like it is !

http://MikeSeaton.tel

PS. Here are 2 examples of search software I have personally developed - http://www.BoatSearchEngine.com and http://www.Net-Link.com/tel

by Tim Spears 2013-10-09, 2:47 am

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Post n°93

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Tim Spears 2013-10-09, 2:47 am

mikeseaton wrote:So many other domain investors / software developers have also given up with .tel

http://www.teltalk.org/t1048-how-many-tel-developers-are-left

by Crazy 2014-05-06, 5:44 pm

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Post n°94

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Crazy 2014-05-06, 5:44 pm

New insight: http://www.teltalk.org/t1629p32-a-good-example-of-how-to-use-a-telnames-tel-for-product-promotion#10111

by Holstern 2014-06-10, 2:04 pm

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Post n°95

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Holstern 2014-06-10, 2:04 pm

ICANN has a new form for complaints against registries:

https://forms.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/registries/form

Please feel free to file your own complaint!

by Holstern 2014-06-10, 2:05 pm

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Post n°96

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Holstern 2014-06-10, 2:05 pm

This is my complaint:

Telnic violates massively the .TEL registry agreement:

ARTICLE VII Special Provisions

Section VII.1Registry Operator-Registrar Agreement

(b) Registry Operator Shall Not Act as Own Registrar. Registry Operator shall not act as a registrar with respect to the TLD. This shall not preclude Registry Operator from registering names within the TLD to itself through a request made to an ICANN-accredited registrar.

(c)Restrictions on Acquisition of Ownership or Controlling Interest in Registrar. Registry Operator shall not acquire, directly or indirectly, control of, or a greater than fifteen percent ownership interest in, any ICANN-accredited registrar without ICANN's prior written approval, which approval shall not be unreasonably withheld.

Violations in detail:

1.) Telnic owns the registrar Telnames with 100 %.

2.) Telnic is selling domains directly to customers through Telnames.

3.) Telnames is faking an involvement of the German registrar Key-Systems who has in fact not the slightest task in administrating the domains at Telnames.

4.) Telnic doesn’t treat all registrars equally. No other registrar gets access to the improved product at Telnames.

5.) Telnic is preparing the deletion of all domains at other registrars and wants to force all customers to switch to Telnames for a premium price, so Telnic / Telnames doesn’t have to share the registration and renewal fees with other registrars.

Please find more information at:
http://www.teltalk.org/t559-icann-complaint-against-telnames
and
http://www.teltalk.org/t642-is-telnames-allowed-to-sell-domains

The .tel community is still waiting for response from ICANN in this 2 years old matter.

by Sunrise 2014-06-10, 3:04 pm

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Post n°97

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by Sunrise 2014-06-10, 3:04 pm

6.) Telnic has stopped developing for Telnic customers in the beginning of 2011 and let the same employed developers only program for Telnames customers.
7.) Telnic stopped all communication with the community in 2011.
8.) Telnic does everything to let customers drop their domains.
9.) Telnic doesn't serve the community and thinks only about its own profit.
10.) Telnic tries to hide their plans and activities and likes to work in the dark.

by ixida 2014-06-10, 3:55 pm

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Post n°98

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by ixida 2014-06-10, 3:55 pm

Holstern wrote:ICANN has a new form for complaints against registries:

https://forms.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/registries/form

Please feel free to file your own complaint!

Good idea! The more people complain, the higher the possibility that ICANN gets active!

by josh. 2014-06-10, 6:25 pm

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Post n°99

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by josh. 2014-06-10, 6:25 pm

Very good initiative!

Telnic must be forced to make advancements available to all customers (at all registrars) and not to keep them for themselves (at Telnames)!

by mikeseaton 2014-06-10, 6:49 pm

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Post n°100

Re: ICANN complaint against Telnames

by mikeseaton 2014-06-10, 6:49 pm

Whilst I agree with the sentiments being expressed IMO some or all of the following are likely to happen:

1. ICANN will reject the complaint(s) on the grounds that Telnames Ltd.is NOT an ICANN-accredited Registrar - they are legally a Reseller for ICANN-accredited Registrar Key Systems of Germany.

2. ICANN is so up to its ears with nearly 2000 New gTLD launches that complaints of this nature will take a long time for ICANN staff to investigate.

3. Telnic Ltd. will run out of the last of its $35,000,000 shareholder investment before any ICANN complaint is resolved AND acted upon.

4. When Telnic Ltd. staff realise the true extent of the daily losses many will start to leave before the money to pay salaries/expenses finally runs out.

5. There MAY be a management buyout of Telnic Ltd. from the shareholders.

http://MikeSeaton.tel

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