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tel-4.com and mirroring without consent Hi there Has anyone else been hijacked by tel-4.com - mirroring your tel directories on their servers? I've already emailed them to tell them to stop but I wonder if anyone else has any experience with them? Hard to pin down, it's seemingly run by someone called Jean Louis from Panama - who describes himself thus on his own tel, jean-louis-thetabiz.tel: "He travels often and calls himself cosmopolitan." Dermod |
Here is the information concerning the individual as the registrant on multiple efforts. Jean Louis was banned from the forum and has been on a rampage to discredit .tel since. (JLouisBiz) Jean Louis has multiple websites acting in multiple capacities on the internet - here's one >> telsucks.info Jean Louis THETABIZ S.A. Suite 458, Apdo 0832-2745 World Trade Center Panama City Panama 1 +507.5078322811 support1@thetabiz.com You'll notice that Jean Louis still has an active .TEL at: thetabiz.tel :rolleyes: |
Thanks telrific. I did a search on tel-4.com on the forum but it didn't show anything up. I was looking in the wrong forums, apparently. What a pain this guy is. I've reported the webspam on webmaster tools but by the looks of it Google aren't interested. It's disgraceful that Google gives prominence to tel-4.com over the original tel, never mind that they index it in the first place. I do think he's right in one regard - telnic aren't on the ball as a company. Great idea, lousy follow-through and implementation. If Telnic were any good as a company they'd have sorted this out with Google a long time ago. This is damaging the brand and the service. |
It can take a bit of time to get your head round the .tel concept - you are not creating your own web site when you input data via the CTH (or programmatically) - you are adding contact and other information to Telnic's DNS which is made available by Telnic to anyone to access and display without restriction. Think of it a bit like when you add information to Twitter - whilst you are still responsible for any libellous comments you make - Twitter makes the content available to anyone (via their API and other software) to access and display without restriction. Re what Jean Louis is doing: 1. It is 100% legal - reading from Telnic's open DNS and displaying data - he is not "framing a web site". 2. Having checked Google Analytics, I find it brings me traffic and also has the benefit of generating 1-way (by far the best) SEO links to the .com web sites listed on my .tels. 3. Has not in my experience lost me any SERPS click-throughs - whenever I have checked search phrases my .tel has ranked above that of the equivalent "tel-4.com" site. 4. Is the basis of Telnic's current usage of the .tel concept - which is to allow anyone to access the data in their DNS and display it. So that's the reality - Dot Tel is a totally different concept to other domain extensions - it is a DNS-based system freely available to anyone to read and exploit - it just takes a little while to get used to stop thinking of MyDomain.tel as your own web site! To summarise the situation - if you don't want your data displayed by 3rd parties - DO NOT PUBLISH IT TO TELNIC'S DNS! Mike Seaton |
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Couldn't agree more Dermod. I raised this issue months ago on this Forum and reported it to Google, but nothing has changed. It is very disheartening.[/size] |
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I think everyone can agree with the open policy premise. I think everyone can also agree that the phrase "in bad faith" has proven relevant. :o[/size] |
I've no objection to data displayed by 3rd parties. I have objection to data in a mirror being prioritized by Google in their results. My objection is to how Google treats the mirroring site, a straight copy of a .tel that doesn't offer any added value, indeed just seems to offer rather pointless and obscure advertising to my directory users. Because, with any new .tel directory, an established domain will trump a new domain. And yet, it shouldn't when it comes to proxies. A proxy should earn its spurs, be there for a reason other than simply copying and framing data. If it's a simple direct copy and frame job, Google should treat it like dirt, and prioritise the original data on .tels. The original tels are the ones that contain our analytics code, our design (such as it is, which isn't much) but it does, surely, have the stamp of authority, because it's been put there by its owner. My objection is that Telnic and Google have not had a working breakfast and sorted this out together. I can imagine all sorts of ways in which data in public DNS systems like telnic's can be used creatively. My directory data could indeed be aggregated into other directories, geographically or thematically - bring it on, I say. Contact details are contact details - it benefits all my members if their contact details are broadcast far and wide. In the right context. My issue is not about illegality - it's about Google ignoring the issue, and it's about Google not respecting the spirit of copyright, if not the letter of the law on copyright. And on some SERPs, tel-4.com results seem to be disguised as the original .tels - the -4.com is not visible at all in the URLs. That implies that Google are actively supporting Jean Louis' endeavours, or the principle of what he's doing - I've never heard of a TLD being masked like this before. |
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Telnic could I imagine - unless the DNS is exempt from this action by ICANN stipulation - block access to anyone they considered acting "in bad faith". Companies like eBay issue an API access key - although this is not strictly the same since it is the DNS that is being read directly rather than an API. The fact that Telnic have decided not to block access re-iterates the conclusion made in my post above - we really do need to accept this as the business reality of the .tel environment we have all chosen to work in. Mike Seaton[/size] |
Even Facebook (and Bing) is giving more authority to this plagarism. [url=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Volkstech/127377753994305?v=info#!/search.php?q=volkstech foxford&init=quick&tas=0.42160951985685835]See second search result here. [/url] Quote:
I second that![/size] |
I believe that data may be published and kept from 3rd parties by making it private. This is a great opportunity to require people to have their own .tel domain before telFriending them, which would allow them access to the private data. |
Getting Worse! Anyone dismissing the damage this mirroring is doing to our directories is very misguided. For example, Google is showing the correct header text in tel-4.com and a messy looking collection of keywords in the header of the .tel directory. Just one small example below - it makes the .tel directory look like a third rate rip-off of the tel-4.com site. Has anyone else noticed this? .Tel Directory http://mayotoday.ie/images/dottel/directory2.jpg Tel-4 http://mayotoday.ie/images/dottel/directory1.jpg |
HI Tony, Unfortunately i have also noticed it for my domain name...actually noticed it long time ago but nothing seem to have changed even after so many pp raised the problem. But it seems to happen only with the ones that were initially registered or indexed by tel-4 services long time ago. It is only my guess...i haven't noticed it with my other recently developed dottel domain. It needs to be confirmed. Voila!!! hope something can be done. Regarding the messy keywords: - Bing and Yahoo seem to pick the proper field for the domain name. They actually pick the top description. - Google is messy when it comes to describing a dottel name. Most of the time, they take the keywords. However, if you add a NOTE then it is a different story. Google actually collects that information instead of keywords. But i must say that it is very inconsistent when it comes to google and most of the time, it is very UGLY.... Hope it helps |
Thanks tel4rent for your detailed response. Much appreciated. Quote:
The reason I posted today was that the directory I reference is new - so the problem persists. I really do believe that it is not just in our interests but Telnic's also that they have a word with Google about getting this sorted out.[/size] |
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Hi Tony, It's not going to happen - since this would go against the Open DNS policy that is the foundation of .tel - please see my post above. I really do think it's important that those who have chosen to purchase .tels understand the nature of the beast - MyDomain.tel is not your own web site - but Telnic's proxy reading of the Open DNS data that is available to all to read and publish. I would imagine that somewhere in ICANN regulations is the stipulation that DNS data must remain freely available to all to read. It doesn't matter whether any of us agree or disagree with this - that is the reality of the .tel domain extension! Mike Seaton[/size] |
With regards to your last post Mike, isn't it possible to make data on your .tel domain private via the Privacy feature, which makes the data hidden except to those who the .tel domain has given permission to view via telFriending? (I understand ultimately someone could be standing over their shoulder 'peeping', but excluding this it would seem possible to hide information) One other strategy might be to insert notes within different pages of your .tel site stating something similar to 'Please make sure you are visiting (domainname).tel for up to date and accurate information. Not the prettiest, but maybe this would redirect people. |
Here is a very good example of how Tel-4.com can actually benefit your SEO ranking and create additional traffic to your web sites. All the links on http://b.siteindex.tel-4.com go directly to my web sites (listed by Telnic proxy at http://b.siteindex.tel) and the outgoing link juice for the page http://b.siteindex.tel-4.com will be divided up and allocated by the search engines to my sites. So I get traffic to my sites that happens to arrive at http://b.siteindex.tel-4.com and I get link juice to all my sites that are listed on the Tel-4.com page. That is why I have no problem with Tel-4.com - apart from the fact that it is doing what .tel was designed for - distributing information that has been input into Telnic's Open DNS. Mike Seaton |
Mike, I have to disagree with you about the positive side of tel-4.com. Links - yes, but they are not that important or useful. At least one of my sites, which used to have over a hundred visits a day, has been displaced on Google by several of its (the sites own) pages, now incorporated into tel-4.com. Not sure whether his site is taking the traffic now, but it seems possible Google has penalized my own site due to duplication of content, and given the benefit to him. It's a pity that the owner of tel-4.com can't be more creative and build his own content. I do get clicks through to associated sites of course, but don't appreciate an uninvited middleman involving himself. It's fairly easy to get a dot tel ranked highly on Google and other search engines, and we really don't need the help of this chap. |
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TelRise, that's fine I don't mind people having a different point of view - that's what discussion boards are for! But whatever you or I think about the pros and cons of Tel-4.com doesn't alter the reality of the .tel extension - to quote my previous post: Quote: [/size]
Mike Seaton[/size] |
Scraper sites Quote:
Dermod, Have a read of this! http://searchengineland.com/google-s...er-sites-90820 Is this the answer your looking for.[/size] |
I whise loui would mirror mi a bit! I can use some extra traffic Vato Ive you read this, i dont see my domains! Do you have mi blocked? |
